Bellowgullet

[truemoon]

Hello.  I'll be reviewing this app as a preliminary for red, who will have the final say in whether or not this is passed. 

So Let me begin by poking at the class a bit.  I would understand why you'd say stoker, as the breath weapon style is the same, however, the overall physical characteristics, in which dragons are mainly classified in HTTYD points more towards the dragon belonging to the Boulder class.  Food for thought.

Up next, for those people who wouldn't be able to load the image, you should mention if the dragon has wings or not, as the same thing happened on my own recent derg app.  You should also mention how smoke builds up in their lungs to give them their coughing fits.  I know, semantics are annoying but its important to know, not for the people of berk, but for everyone on the website.  Dragons should be limited to one type of breath weapon, where your dragon would have gouts of flame as its weapon, I would assume the smoke with it would be hot, but not enough to do enough damage itself to be considered its own weapon.  Just more food for thought.  Most dragons in HTTYD have only one style of attack, and all the crap that happens with it is just a side effect of their weapon. 

Their habitat is kind of a touchy subject since its a boulder class physically, it would be near a barren place, but you say it enjoys water.  So would it be primarily found more around cliffs, coves and the like?  Where they can wallow in the water like you say they enjoy, and still be able to be secure?  Also, this dragon is a bit slow and lumbering to benefit from hunting fish, dragons on berk contrary to popular belief eat anything that moves, including people and cattle.  It doesn't make as much sense for a lumbering dragon to be a fisher. 

A dragon might have high amounts of resistances to heat, but they are never immune.  Keep this in mind.

I would also assume it would have very powerful jaws as well, and that low jaw strength just kinda irks me for some reason.

Anyways, these are just a few things I've noticed as a quick preliminary review.  I recommend editing and letting someone know or change the title of this thread to "edited" so we can keep up with your work.

[Ren Vikarson]

We seem to have a ton of Boulders, I mainly put this in such a place to deal with the Stoker deficiency. Its focus on flame breath seems entirely Stoker as stated. And the smoke isn't actually a weapon, just a discharge which flame creates. As for the habitat I'm saying they enjoy hot and steaming water, as in hotsprings and geysers not open ocean. There is no reason they have much bite power, their main food is shellfish and such none mobile aquatic prey again showing how they don't need speed to catch it.

[truemoon]

  The number of boulder class vs stoker class is irrelevant to the point that the dragon's appearance is very boulder class, regardless of its breath weapon.  Most dragons of the stoker class are slimmed, and very agile, not slow or lumbering.  Take the nightmare.  The nightmare flies circles around a gronkle, which this dragon is reminiscent of.

  By cove, I meant small outlets into a watery area, but I see your point.  Be sure to VIVIDLY detail the habitat in your app to avoid confusion.  Also, Jaw strength is relative to the food source, and your food is shellfish mostly, so you would need jaw strength to crack the shells of those medieval mollusks.  Just saying.

  But I would still think that dragons even of the stoker class would eat more than just fish, and they're fast.  Just be sure to fully detail this in your app.  This is mostly about avoiding confusion for people reading the app.

[Ren Vikarson]

Is the Red Death agile? Is the Moldruffle slim? The literal canon has shot down your personal opinion in this matter. Whatever you think qualifies a dragon as one class or the other isn't important and aspects of the boulder class are officially stated as rock eaters, small winged and associated with earth either as burrowers or armoured. Stokers on the other hand are characterised as powerful fire breathers which suits this dragon much more. As for the matter of jaw strength, is a jaw power of 8 not enough to break mussel shells that a human can bite through? As for what a dragon eats I'd remind you that the Razorwhip eats seaslugs, thats it, an entire dragon supported on slugs.

[truemoon]

  You sir, are very hostile, and there was a much less rude way of correcting me. 

  Derg: Stoker, conferred with red.  This is fine.  I also said this was food for thought, not "Change it, I dont like it."  no need to be aggressive.
  Diet: alright
  Habitat:  Be a tad more detailed as to what you mean.  Thats all i'm asking.  Some people, including myself, might be confused about it.  Like add the fact they like to be around hot water in there, not just volcanic islands like your behavior section highlights a bit.
  Jaw strength: Its still a derg, I'd give it a bit more, but the stats really are irrelevant as they're going byebye anyways somewhere down the line.
  Deets yo: You still need the addition of specific details as to why they have coughing fits.  More specific details as to its overall body shape and why it is slow would be appreciated. 

I just would like you to polish this a bit, add more details, you dont have to edit a whole lot, its mostly just detailing what you have.  Confer to my original points, and see what you think needs to be elaborated, and add details where it makes sense.

  Remember, I'm taking my time to read your app, the least you can do is not lash out at me.  Thanks.

[Ren Vikarson]

As are you. You were too insistent for it to just come across as food for thought, in fact it was pushing past the line of your own dedicated opinion. In fact you were coming across as trying to force the dragon to conform to your ideals which is why I got annoyed. I've made edits to it every time I read your opinions and took things into consideration but when you started taking that tone that seems to demands that stoker and boulder be what you interoperate thats when it goes too far.

[Redkitebait]

Whoa whoa whoa. Sorry to interrupt the apping process but I feel like I have to step in here.

Moon is trying hard to help work with your app so it can get accepted. Moon has been nothing but polite to you and you're snapping back with a serious attitude that is not fun for us. Making a new custom dragon accepted is all about compromise to work something out that makes both the staff and the owner of the custom dragon happy.

*makes things clear so we're on the same page*
Obviously the argument here is whether it should be in stoker or boulder - then you DISCUSS it, discuss the points, see where it feels it fits the most. After Moon asked me for an input, I agreed it could be a stoker class, of course if canon information comes out about this dragon, the canon information will override any information here.
"Food for thought" implies there is an opening for discussion.

I don't appreciate the tone you are taking with us. Please be polite and respectful with the staff. Thank you.

*twiddles hand* Carry on.

[Ren Vikarson]

I'd given Moon my answer on the matters and continuing to push it proves that it wasn't just "Food for thought" and I considered it outright disrespectful. And Moon has not been nothing but polite Red, not that I'm not surprised for the mods to side with each other but my point remains that if you want me to respect you then respect that I gave an answer. Either way the two of you have pretty much put me off bothering with this dragon with the insistent goading.

Frankly if you want to change it so much then have the damn thing, you're successfully draining out every bit of creative interest I had. 

[PIME2]

Did Moon put things badly? Probably, I do agree it did not come off as 'just food for thought' when I read it. But, it is still within keeping with how the review process is supposed to go and was not meant to go. It's a to and fro, you post, he reviews, you respond and modify if you feel it necessary, he responds back, ad fin until the app has been accepted or an in-pas is reached.

Moon's response, while we have already established that we as an admin team agree with your view in regards to whether it's boulder or stoker, was not intended to be disrespectful and was an honest mis-belief on his part. The reason we seem to be 'siding with each other' is cause the apparent aggression in your posts was unexpected to us and our natural instinct is to try and calm the situation, cause we want everyone to be happy here.

I'm sorry if you feel like you dont want to work on this dragon application because things, but please understand we're not trying to goad you, we are trying to help and when the only method of conversation is through text everybody sounds a lot more passive-aggressive than they intend to. We only want to help

---

On the off chance you do want to continue this app, I'll just quickly add what is actually still within review.

Really all moon wanted was more detail, specifically about the Habitat and the overall body shape of the dragon, as well as why they have coughing fits and anything else when reading through it again you think could be added to. Also, if there is any information you feel is conveyed by the stats which has not been put into the writing, could you please to so, as we have decided to retire the stat line due to it being confusing to people and not serve any benefit to the RP experience.

I do like this app, it would be a shame to lose this stoker due to a misunderstanding

[PIME2]

 Oh man i didn't realized just how much i'd written, sorry I have a tendency to talk a lot, which never looks great especially when there's no voice showing how I'm trying to say it.

[Ren Vikarson]

Its ok Pime, you come across as more respectful and less pushy so I'll give it a shot at making some edits and copying the stats into the rest of the dragon.

[PIME2]

If you have time, would you mind coming onto piratepad.net/CentralHubWorld for a bit? Red and I would like to talk for a bit

[Ren Vikarson]

We can just scrap this one, I've given up on it.